Idaho Gun Talk

Shooting Sports - Shooting and Competitions => 3 Gun Shooting => The Rifle => Topic started by: Nealio on March 03, 2013, 09:59:08 AM

Title: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 03, 2013, 09:59:08 AM
I have this stupid 9mm carbine and I wanted to shoot it at 3-gun. My loads out of that gun should have a higher power factor than most .223, so I have that covered.  Are there any rules against running a 9mm carbine in "outlaw rules" 3-gun?
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: carharttfarmer on March 03, 2013, 01:27:09 PM
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=165735 (http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=165735)
thread on enos about it i say go nuts worse that can happen is we laugh at ya :)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 03, 2013, 02:32:08 PM
thread on enos about it i say go nuts worse that can happen is we laugh at ya :)

Worst case or normal case?
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: carharttfarmer on March 03, 2013, 05:21:30 PM
Worst case or normal case?


Well we learned no body cheers for you at the new years match so laughs might be best case ;)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: idHawk on March 04, 2013, 04:01:29 PM
I have this stupid 9mm carbine and I wanted to shoot it at 3-gun. My loads out of that gun should have a higher power factor than most .223, so I have that covered.  Are there any rules against running a 9mm carbine in "outlaw rules" 3-gun?

It's completely legal.   The only problem is that it puts you into FR Class (Full Retard), and you might be the only run in the entire country running FR.   Of course, it would set you up for 1st Place in your class, everytime you shoot, so you've got that going for you... which is nice.

Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 04, 2013, 04:45:37 PM
It's completely legal.   The only problem is that it puts you into FR Class (Full Retard), and you might be the only run in the entire country running FR

I know Cody likes to run that class frequently
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: ID#5 on March 04, 2013, 05:10:58 PM
Might be fun inside 120 yards.

200 to 500 yards seems a bit sporty.
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: avking on March 04, 2013, 06:29:30 PM
If I get healthy enough this year, I'll be shooting a 9mm PCC, since the AR is gone and it is all I will have.
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 04, 2013, 07:36:37 PM
Might be fun inside 120 yards.

200 to 500 yards seems a bit sporty.

I haven't loaded up any hotter "rifle" style loads yet, but I'm guessing I can hit an 18x24" @ 400.  But we'll see.
I was hitting the 150 and 250 yard square gongs at Parma right after I bought it.
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: J Mack on March 04, 2013, 08:29:31 PM
 Can we use any pistol as a carbine?

Thinking about whittling a stock and barrel for the Bersa Thunder so I can give Nealio a run in the FR class.


My vision is to take this beauty and...
(http://locknloadonline.com/images/Gun%20Images/Bersa/Bersa%20Thunder%20380.jpg)

Turn into this!

(http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Pistols/Semi-auto%20Pistols/US-%20Wildey%20pistol_files/Carbine.jpg)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 04, 2013, 09:30:50 PM
Now that would be sweet
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: ID#5 on March 04, 2013, 09:41:03 PM
Now that would be sweet

Put on a hockey helmet or a full face motorcycle helmet so you don't have 'slide to cheakbone syndrome' and rip it up

A 9mm 115gr FMJ and a .22LR Hi-velocity have about the same ballistics

.190BC@1150fps or .125BC@1250fps


means you need 90 to 100moa up at 500 yards
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: DAVIS on March 04, 2013, 09:56:01 PM
It's completely legal.   The only problem is that it puts you into FR Class (Full Retard), and you might be the only run in the entire country running FR.   Of course, it would set you up for 1st Place in your class, everytime you shoot, so you've got that going for you... which is nice.

Now that is funny right there. Rep inbound!
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 04, 2013, 10:04:09 PM
A 9mm 115gr FMJ and a .22LR Hi-velocity have about the same ballistics

.190BC@1150fps or .125BC@1250fps

means you need 90 to 100moa up at 500 yards

I'm at 1575 fps
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: ID#5 on March 04, 2013, 10:15:41 PM
I'm at 1575 fps

I'm going to 'out' myself as a ballistics geek on this one....

Federal 115gr FMJ has a BC of .120
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=94 (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=94)

at 1575fps
27.5Hg.
75F


you will need from 100 yard zero ...

67moa up for 500 yards
80moa up at 550 yards
93moa up at 600 yards
 
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 04, 2013, 10:28:57 PM
I'm going to 'out' myself as a ballistics geek on this one....

Federal 115gr FMJ has a BC of .120
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=94 (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=94)

at 1575fps
27.5Hg.
75F


you will need from 100 yard zero ...

67moa up for 500 yards
80moa up at 550 yards
93moa up at 600 yards

Do you have any numbers for 200-400? :)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: ID#5 on March 04, 2013, 10:32:23 PM
sure, give me a sec.

But for comparison my .300WinMag needs 67moa up from 100 yards at a Mile on a warm day....

Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: ID#5 on March 04, 2013, 10:42:30 PM
From JBM

Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient:   0.120 G1   
Muzzle Velocity:    1575.0 ft/s      
Temperature:    75.0 F   
Pressure:    27.50 in Hg
Humidity:    0 %   
   
Calculated Table
Range   Drop       Drop   
(yd)        (in)       (MOA)

100       -0.0         -0.0
150       -7.9         -5.0
200       -23.5       -11.2
250       -48.1     -18.4
300       -83.1     -26.4
350       -129.6     -35.4
400       -189.0     -45.1
450       -262.7     -55.8
500      -352.1     -67.3
550      -458.9     -79.7
600      -584.8     -93.1
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 05, 2013, 10:54:49 AM
Calculated Table
Range   Drop       Drop   
(yd)        (in)       (MOA)

100       -0.0         -0.0
150       -7.9         -5.0
200       -23.5       -11.2
250       -48.1     -18.4
300       -83.1     -26.4
350       -129.6     -35.4
400       -189.0     -45.1
450       -262.7     -55.8
500      -352.1     -67.3
550      -458.9     -79.7
600      -584.8     -93.1

This is about what I expected.  I think I will be OK to 400 or so assuming i can get it to group OK :)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: avking on March 06, 2013, 11:53:45 AM
Aaron, what optic are you running on your JR Carbine?
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 06, 2013, 12:09:02 PM
Aaron, what optic are you running on your JR Carbine?

Primary Arms PA3M (Multi-Reticle)

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_MultiReticle_Red_Dot_Sight_PAM3M_p/pam3m.htm (https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_MultiReticle_Red_Dot_Sight_PAM3M_p/pam3m.htm)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Luvmy45 on March 06, 2013, 04:38:03 PM
Here you go Nealio.... your next 3 gun carbine...

9mm Carbine for 3 Gun (http://secure.adpay.com/ZIdaho%20Classifieds/9890006/clicknbuy.aspx?networkview=False&catid=OO46e&pcatid=OO46&procid=47c92959-7870-4a2e-ab7b-f9db4f3e5235)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: Nealio on March 06, 2013, 04:53:48 PM
Here you go Nealio.... your next 3 gun carbine...

9mm Carbine for 3 Gun (http://secure.adpay.com/ZIdaho%20Classifieds/9890006/clicknbuy.aspx?networkview=False&catid=OO46e&pcatid=OO46&procid=47c92959-7870-4a2e-ab7b-f9db4f3e5235)

I actually already own one of those.. ;)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: J Mack on April 07, 2013, 05:42:39 PM
How about going the other way and use the M1 Garand?
http://youtu.be/BZ6Lh6IsNpQ (http://youtu.be/BZ6Lh6IsNpQ)
Title: Re: 9mm carbine "legal"?
Post by: tahoemustang on April 07, 2013, 06:49:28 PM
That would be interesting, a 3-gun stage that required the use of a Garand and a 1911. That could be a lot of fun!