Author Topic: "Concealed Carry" match  (Read 5149 times)

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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2016, 03:46:08 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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Should we do low round count aka SS Nat stages to encourage BUG guns?
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2016, 04:10:32 PM »

Offline KennyP

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Yes, I would say stages of 20 or so rounds max. If the point is to get people to bring out their Shields and G43s, I wouldn't set up 32 round field courses. Maybe 6 Round arrays for the most part too.

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2016, 04:17:24 PM »

Offline Talionis

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Yes

Your wish is my command. Definitely a little slow on the draw :( http://youtu.be/ryqxbqkSMNw

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2016, 04:33:45 PM »

Offline EKuo

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Your wish is my command. Definitely a little slow on the draw :( http://youtu.be/ryqxbqkSMNw

Cool
Hope is a lousy strategy, but sometimes it is good tactics. 

Plan B should not be Plan A twice as hard.

If you're happy and you know it, clap your... aw hell, never mind...

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2016, 04:34:27 PM »

Offline EKuo

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Should we do low round count aka SS Nat stages to encourage BUG guns?

Why? This not a BUG match.
Hope is a lousy strategy, but sometimes it is good tactics. 

Plan B should not be Plan A twice as hard.

If you're happy and you know it, clap your... aw hell, never mind...

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2016, 04:42:46 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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I'm not suggesting making this a bug match.

In the spirit of a carry match, how many guys carry 32 rounds on their persons?
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2016, 04:52:02 PM »

Offline KennyP

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Wait, if we don't tailor the match to smaller guns, aren't we just holding a regular USPSA match and people with carry gear are essentially signing up as Limited or Limited 10 and are just not competitive? That doesn't sound appealing, you could do that any match. If we're holding an outlaw "Concealed Carry" match with stages that make some sense for that, then count me in. If it's the former, I'll just shoot Limited.

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2016, 04:58:24 PM »

Offline motosapiens

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I agree with kenny. I bet most of you are not carrying 2011's, but a reasonable question is what kind of stuff do people actually carry, anyway? i have a little-bitty nano, but I only carry that if i'm planning on drinking or carrying where prohibited, or otherwise want to be extra double-sure not to get outed. Otherwise it's generally the p01. I am interested in shooting what I actually carry. I am not all that interested in shooting my normal race guns from concealment.
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2016, 05:04:03 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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I'll shoot my Shield and in the spirit of things not care if Mulligan beats me with his Race gun. He can have that busted old Winnebago. I hear Mark did unmentionable things in the back of it.

However I'd like to finish a COF with my 8 round mags. I'll need at least 4 shots per any popper outside of 3 yards :)
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2016, 05:17:57 PM »

Offline Talionis

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I think high round count doesn't really belong in this context. After all, if you were really striving for realism even the low round count of IDPA would be considered ridiculously inflated. My suggestion would be to limit stage round count to no more than what someone carrying a Glock 19 and a spare magazine would be able to engage, since that is really one of the fairly universally embraced standards for concealed carry. I would be inclined to limit per-stage round count to under 20, if not less than that. Personally I would be interested in significantly lower round count (more like 12-15) and extremely challenging shooting problems mixed in with more normal shooting.

I think broad freedom to shoot with what you actually carry is an important aspect of this proposed match. There are definite tradeoffs in capability when one chooses smaller and lighter guns, and it *could* serve as a valuable testing ground for people to experiment with where their personal risk/reward line is. Not everyone carries a full size service pistol all day, but plenty do. While I normally carry my VP9, sometimes I'll just throw on my J-frame and call it good; I would enjoy seeing just how much my match performance suffers based on that choice. Of course, sometimes I'll throw the SP5K in my messenger bag too, just because I can. I'd like to see how that works out in terms of match performance too.

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2016, 05:29:11 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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Finally at a PC so I can type up a proper response.

I believe to avoid making this a USPSA match with a vest we should all really put a stop to any excessive gaming right off the bat. I really want to see this match take off and have more of them as I'm sure many of you are fed up with IDPA and miss conceal carry matches. Open guns and STI Edges aren't even a concern as they WILL NOT fit in the box. That doesn't even need to be debated with a Starbucks picture.

I'm totally for saying no round limitation however I think the stages should be designed accordingly to retain the true nature of what the match stands for. This isn't so I can compete with someone carrying a G17/G19 with my G43 or Shield. I would plan on squadding and only caring about what someone else comparatively to me was doing.

My .02 - Allowing PCC would really be a slap in the face to the premise of lets have a conceal carry match. Anyone that says otherwise is playing devils advocate. None of you are Seal Team 6 Special Secret Forces Delta protecting Trump. You just have a really fun gun and want to shoot it. I get that and that's ok. Come out of the closet. We get it.

If that the case then fine. I'm not one for pissing on someones party but don't BS anyone with I carry my 16" AR IWB. (Disregard in the context of SP5 in a messenger bag)





« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 05:32:16 PM by praetorian97 »
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2016, 05:30:11 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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I think high round count doesn't really belong in this context. After all, if you were really striving for realism even the low round count of IDPA would be considered ridiculously inflated. My suggestion would be to limit stage round count to no more than what someone carrying a Glock 19 and a spare magazine would be able to engage, since that is really one of the fairly universally embraced standards for concealed carry. I would be inclined to limit per-stage round count to under 20, if not less than that. Personally I would be interested in significantly lower round count (more like 12-15) and extremely challenging shooting problems mixed in with more normal shooting.

I think Z needs to come out of stage designing retirement. I know you could work some magic for this match.

, sometimes I'll just throw on my J-frame and call it good; I would enjoy seeing just how much my match performance suffers based on that choice. .

Mikey DOOO IT.
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2016, 05:34:52 PM »

Offline EKuo

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I'm not suggesting making this a bug match.

In the spirit of a carry match, how many guys carry 32 rounds on their persons?

Glock 19 + 1 spare mag is 31 rnds. 
Hope is a lousy strategy, but sometimes it is good tactics. 

Plan B should not be Plan A twice as hard.

If you're happy and you know it, clap your... aw hell, never mind...

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2016, 05:46:18 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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Glock 19 + 1 spare mag is 31 rnds. 

A COF with a high round count would require a 1911/G43/Shield shooter to carry 5 + mags. To me that shys away people that carry 1911s and BUG style guns from shooting this match.

I agree with whats being said about a 12-15 avg and all less than 20.

At that rate 1911s and Bugs can atleast get away with 2-3 mags per stage and sticking close to the premise of a CC match.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 05:48:16 PM by praetorian97 »
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2016, 06:05:07 PM »

Offline EKuo

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2011 with a trimmed down magwell (or minus the magwell) will fit the box.  Just saying. 

Guys are going to want to shoot this game with the guns they have.  Plain and simple.  In fact we should encourage that.  If you want to shoot a single stack gun, bring enough mags.  But I can see how coming to the line with 6 mags may seem a little silly when talking about concealed carry.  However 'Merica.

I like Zack's comparison to the ubiquitous Glock 19.  But even a G19 + spare mag + barney = 31. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 06:09:47 PM by EKuo »
Hope is a lousy strategy, but sometimes it is good tactics. 

Plan B should not be Plan A twice as hard.

If you're happy and you know it, clap your... aw hell, never mind...

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2016, 06:24:20 PM »

Offline KennyP

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But... if this is to be a concealed carry match, and we want people to shoot the concealed carry guns that they own, then it's a big assumption to think that the people with Shields, G43s, XDSes and other very popular carry guns even own that many mags. I can say personally that I don't, I have 2 7 rounders and an 8, because for CC needs, I will never even carry both reloads. So I would suggest to those that have 15 Round guns that want to shoot them in USPSA, just do it. Zack does, and it works out well, but this match should cater to the most popular carry guns, which are the 12-15ish Round double stacks, and the 6-8 Round single stacks. About 15-20 rounds per stage seems about right to appeal to both crowds.

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2016, 06:45:49 PM »

Offline Ryanvan9

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It's a cool idea. It would be cool to shoot my Shield, but how do I hold my mags. In my pocket?  Go out and but a new belt?

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2016, 07:01:19 PM »

Offline EKuo

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It's a cool idea. It would be cool to shoot my Shield, but how do I hold my mags. In my pocket?  Go out and but a new belt?


How do you carry your Shield and reloads right now?
Hope is a lousy strategy, but sometimes it is good tactics. 

Plan B should not be Plan A twice as hard.

If you're happy and you know it, clap your... aw hell, never mind...

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2016, 08:01:27 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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This?
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2016, 08:06:26 PM »

Offline KennyP

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^^^ looks legit