Author Topic: "Concealed Carry" match  (Read 5150 times)

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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2016, 08:16:54 PM »

Offline Talionis

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How do you carry your Shield and reloads right now?

When I roll with my J-frame (if this goes anywhere) I'm going to be doing sick pocket reloads. Even with the full size gun, I imagine I'd shoot some matches from my legit AIWB magazine pouch that I rarely use, and some from a pocket (where I usually drop a spare mag).

As far as Eric's PCC slap in the face comment; I know you made an exception for my stated example, but I think this type of outlaw match would be an excellent place to experiment with carry configurations, including subgun style stuff. Pretty easily workable with a simple rule or two, and at a significant disadvantage as far as deployment speed. Good for experimentation. If someone wants to find a way to stash a 16" PCC in a backpack and deploy it, I say rock on. I'm not the arbiter of what is practical for a person to carry, but I do think it's interesting to test potentially ingenious solutions under the pressure of a match environment.

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2016, 08:30:13 PM »

Offline KennyP

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I'm with Zack, the match isn't about being super competitive to me, I just wanna shoot my carry gun on stages that make sense to do so. For me, it's a Shield in a IWB at 4:00, loaded to either 8+1 or 7+1, with a reload in my back pocket. I'd love to shoot the match the same way.

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2016, 08:37:50 PM »

Offline Mully383

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Stage design...

 Easy. Pick out shooting senerios that actually happened that year and re-create them as best as possible.

Gun rules....

Easy.... Where people's class is just fill in what gun and holster there shooting. I realize this might take a minute but you've already wasted more time on this. If someone one wins with" STI dvc double alpha race master" next to there name we will all know they have no integerity. But who cares becuase I'm not judging my score on that guy. Do not limit to 9mm and larger. Limit it to your daily carry. Mine is .380 and .40, depends on the weather.

Keep it as real as possible. Real life stages (if the real life scenario has more rounds then ones daily let them be awaken about their gun choice and who cares about the score). Real life guns.... If I show up with a m&p PC in .40 with an optic riding in a well broken in 100 dollar iwb custom holster just know I don't fuck around. Real life..... Let's keep it to that.


Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2016, 08:45:54 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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We need the Yo Homie that's my briefcase stage.
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2016, 09:16:12 PM »

Offline stango424

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I'm in depending on day... I also dont agree with the no .380 depending on the situation for the day I have my lcp g42 or g 19 so would be nice too have the ability to shoot any of them.
Also what if we have a light bearing iwb can we shoot with the light mounted?

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2016, 09:19:23 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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A valid point brought up for the PCC was yes allow but it has to be practically concealed. Like a guitar case :)
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2016, 09:21:17 PM »

Offline Ryanvan9

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Panda, I carry my Shield appendix and to be honest I don't carry extra mags.

And I agree with Kenny, this would be super fun match. Wouldn't be competitive for me, just something new and different.

I just want to come out and shoot again.


Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2016, 09:23:16 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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I think Evans is onto something cool for the local scene to do now and then.

I'll put together some rough rules tomorrow and get his blessing.

Jared, I don't see an issue with Light Mounted.
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2016, 09:26:33 PM »

Offline Ryanvan9

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I'm with Zack, the match isn't about being super competitive to me, I just wanna shoot my carry gun on stages that make sense to do so. For me, it's a Shield in a IWB at 4:00, loaded to either 8+1 or 7+1, with a reload in my back pocket. I'd love to shoot the match the same way.

Agree, this is what I would do too. You guys are getting my juices flowing again. Love it. Now that Trump is prez I can afford ammo now. ;-)

Assume you are talking about shooting at NRGC, but what about Impact?

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2016, 09:29:34 PM »

Offline RGinIdaho

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I'm in!

Minimal rules, post'em up front, edc guns gear and garb, we'll harass the crap out of anyone not understanding the concept...

... a vest is an auto bump to open, FOAD

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2016, 09:30:52 PM »

Offline EKuo

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I'm in depending on day... I also dont agree with the no .380 depending on the situation for the day I have my lcp g42 or g 19 so would be nice too have the ability to shoot any of them.
Also what if we have a light bearing iwb can we shoot with the light mounted?

Light equipped gun in AIWB would give you uber baller status.  I see nothing wrong with a light equipped gun.

One way to handle higher round count stages would be to design something where you start the stage with your smaller CCW and "fight" your way to where your "night stand" gun is positioned (Which could be a full size pistol, PCC or even a shotgun).  The night stand gun would be of your choosing, and up to you to bring it. 

.380 and some of the smaller calibers... yeah, those are legit carry calibers, but can we still make minor PF with those? 

Another aspect we haven't discussed is PF.  Testing that I've done between my 5" guns and my compacts (G43 or my 4" Officer in .45) is I lose about 75-90 fps with the shorter barrel.  We gonna hold people to 125/165 or just score based on caliber (9 for minor, .40/.45 for major)?  Or just score everybody minor like we do at Glocks Only? 
Hope is a lousy strategy, but sometimes it is good tactics. 

Plan B should not be Plan A twice as hard.

If you're happy and you know it, clap your... aw hell, never mind...

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2016, 09:37:34 PM »

Offline RGinIdaho

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.380 and some of the smaller calibers... yeah, those are legit carry calibers, but can we still make minor PF with those? 

Another aspect we haven't discussed is PF.  Testing that I've done between my 5" guns and my compacts (G43 or my 4" Officer in .45) is I lose about 75-90 fps with the shorter barrel.  We gonna hold people to 125/165 or just score based on caliber (9 for minor, .40/.45 for major)?  Or just score everybody minor like we do at Glocks Only?

.380 and 38sp not gonna make 125 pf but hey, the shooters know they need to put the steel down... choices!

I don't see us chrono'ing, how 'bout we trust each other to run ammo that makes PF in a full sized gun
 

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2016, 09:41:53 PM »

Offline EKuo

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.380 and 38sp not gonna make 125 pf but hey, the shooters know they need to put the steel down... choices!

I don't see us chrono'ing, how 'bout we trust each other to run ammo that makes PF in a full sized gun
 

That could be a stretch, but I don't want to overthink this.  Next thing we'll have tiger teams and Joyce-count...
Hope is a lousy strategy, but sometimes it is good tactics. 

Plan B should not be Plan A twice as hard.

If you're happy and you know it, clap your... aw hell, never mind...

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2016, 09:49:13 PM »

Offline DJM

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I'm with Zack, the match isn't about being super competitive to me, I just wanna shoot my carry gun on stages that make sense to do so. For me, it's a Shield in a IWB at 4:00, loaded to either 8+1 or 7+1, with a reload in my back pocket. I'd love to shoot the match the same way.

I only threw in the PCC comment in an effort to be funny.  I agree with Kenny, I want to shoot what I carry.  I have a G19 but I never carry it because it's too big and the weight from all that ammo pulls my pants off my skinny white butt.  I've been wanting to shoot a match with my G43 to see how it works out and get some actual practice with it, but I've previously shot an IDPA match and I'm not going to join just for a BUG match.  I assume, Eric, from your previous post that is kind of where you are and why you want to do this.  Stay true to that.  I'm all for guys shooting whatever they want, but I want to squad with guys shooting similar equipment, i.e., Shields, G43s and the like. 

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2016, 10:13:24 PM »

Offline EKuo

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Damn, I had DJM figured for a pimped out Colt with matching bling.  Not Gaston's latest creation. 

With regard to max rounds per stage, I can see why IDPA settled on 18 rnds...  But they have that stupid 10-rnd mag rule.  This be 'Merica!  So I can see us in the neighborhood of 20-22 rnds as our max.  That's in the neighborhood of 3 mags worth from a single stack sub-compact, but no restriction if a guy wanted to have a 4th in a pocket just in case.  Or that's only 1.5 G19 mags, which is good so nobody has to see DJM's white butt.  Belt carry, front pocket, back pocket... its all good.  See previous comment about pic while in Starbucks to be legit.

Hope is a lousy strategy, but sometimes it is good tactics. 

Plan B should not be Plan A twice as hard.

If you're happy and you know it, clap your... aw hell, never mind...

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2016, 09:32:37 AM »

Offline idHawk

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... we should all really put a stop to any excessive gaming right off the bat.

.... I think the stages should be designed accordingly to retain the true nature of what the match stands for.


First off.  Spoken like a true IDPA Match Director.  Finally, did you REALLY just say those two things, MR. MINOR POWER FACTOR at the 1911 Match?  No sir.  No gaming was going on there, and the spirit of the match being a Major Power Factor match was not compromised at all.  No sir. 

As for this match,  shoot what you carry.  Period.  Gabe White carries a G34, appendix.   So what.  This match would be a good test to see if what we carry stacks up against what others carry.   We always tell people to carry as much gun as you can get away with.   So.... let people shoot a gun that they actually carry.   If someone is dishonest and brings a gun that they don't really carry, then that is on them.   Many of us carry a variety of guns.  Let's trust people to show some integrity and shoot what they carry.   No divisions.  No restrictions.   Let's find out what people can do with what they actually carry.   I think it could be a great eye opener for many of us.  Some of us might realize we can get away with carrying a larger gun while others might decide that a larger gun is not worth the downsides.   

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2016, 09:48:34 AM »

Offline praetorian97

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Well for one see attachments.....

In discussing this with the others involved, we most likely will do away with PF for the sake of simplicity like the Glocks Only Match.





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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2016, 12:54:03 PM »

Offline praetorian97

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Rev 3

Premise: IDPA gear/concealment with USPSA rules.

Minimum caliber is .380 but steel must fall and it set to normal calibration standards. - PENDING

Stages will consist of perceived real life “it could happen” scenarios.     
Averaging 12-15 rounds. All under 20 round. – PENDING
All scoring is Comstock.
Power Factor - All the same - PENDING
USPSA rules with USPSA targets, fault lines instead of "cover". Stage designers are encouraged to make people lean via stage design. Problem solving and vision barriers are encouraged.
Shoot'em as you see 'em. No story plot on how to shoot the stage step by step.
No restrictions on reloads. I.E. Mags are not required to be retained unless specifically written in stage brief
No restrictions on how many no shoots you can use in a stage.

Divisions

John Wick
15 plus round guns

Compacts
10 round guns

I Should Have Brought A Larger Gun
G43/Shields/Etc

EQUIPMENT RULES

Equipment rules will emphasize concealed carry gear only. 
Gun with mag inserted must fit in the IDPA box.  For sake of simplicity any gun with an optic is OK, but the host gun must fit in the box if the optic was dismounted.  MDs discretion on allowing larger if proven it’s an actual carry gun. The “Dirty Harry” Rule

Capacity: None at this time. But ALL mags must be able to fit in the box when inserted into the magazine.

Holster and mag pouches must be suitable as carry gear.  No double belts, no race holsters, no magnets, no DOH holsters, and no cross-draw or shoulder holsters.  Only restriction on placement is it cannot point the gun up range on the draw.  Concealment garment must be worn that hides the gun when hands are at surrender. Appendix is acceptable.
Reloads can be stored anywhere on body as long as some level of concealment is considered.  Front pocket, shirt pocket, etc Light Bearing guns are acceptable.

PCC is acceptable but must have concealment concept approved for safety and to keep the match in the spirit of its intent. If you walk around with a guitar case, then so be it. The "Desperado" Rule

Potential drop gun stages. Stage designers to furnish factory ammo and gun.  Club will reimburse for the costs of the ammo (9mm/38 Special) but design stages for anticipated turn out and limit amount of ammo the club has to buy to no more than 200 rounds to keep the costs reasonable
   Example: Pistol to fight your way to a truck/PCC gun or home defense shotgun.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 12:59:23 PM by praetorian97 »
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Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2016, 01:03:38 PM »

Offline idHawk

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Taking Weaver's approach to being blunt.... I think divisions are dumb for this match.   Let's see how people stack up against each other with what they actually carry.   Keeping things as "Real Life" as possible means the guy that finishes last died the fastest.   It's really that simple.   Don't want to die?  Shoot faster or carry a bigger gun.  There's no divisions in real life.

Re: "Concealed Carry" match
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2016, 02:03:15 PM »

Offline KennyP

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Haha, "real life"... no offense intended, because this match sounds like it is going to be a lot of fun, but as it stands now, we're allowing rifles concealed in guitar cases.