Author Topic: March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts  (Read 2065 times)

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March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts
« on: March 04, 2013, 11:43:53 AM »

Offline Edge

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I thought I'd start a thread for after action reports on what went right and what went wrong at the mile match.

For me, I noticed again, that once we moved out to 2000 yards and beyond, it was difficult to see the target.  It's either haze or fog or something.  Even our high dollar optics can't seem to cut through it.

The wind was once again troublesome.  The range is particularly hard to decipher what the wind is actually doing because of all the hills and valleys that we have to shoot across.  I've noticed that from our firing point the wind could be going in a south to north direction, but at the target, the wind will be going totally opposite.  There's been many times, even on 10 mph wind days that I've needed zero windage dialed on my scope in order to hit the target.

Another observation, and I know this has already been brought up, is the inconsistent calls from various sighters.  I attribute this to the vast number of new shooters who are trying out this kind of shooting.  We really need to get everyone on the same page of calling out mils and/or moa corrections.  Eventually we'll get there, but we'll need to take time with the new shooters to train them up.

Everytime I shoot these matches I learn something new and this was no different.  One thing for sure is that once you get past 1500 yards, everything changes.  The shooter and spotters really need to watch the environment.  I'm also coming to the conclusion that corriolus and spin drift are something that may need to be taken into considerations at these distances.  I don't think they have much of a factor inside the 1500 yard mark, but they definately do beyond that.  I will be testing this theory further at the next shoot for sure.
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Re: March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 11:59:58 AM »

Offline 3gunshredder

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I agree 100% on the spotter calls.  I'd just prefer to shoot/spot with someone I've shot w/before.  Some of the crazy shit that was being called out there really cracked me up.  Here's what I'd suggest....
RO:  Shooter 1 do you have a spotter?
S1:  No.
RO:  Copy.  Are you shooting MILs or MOA?
S1:  MIL's
RO:  Copy.  Spotter (BK, JM, someone w/skillz)....shooter is using MIL's.
Spotter:  Copy that.  Shooter is using MIL's.
RO:  Shooter 1.  fire when ready.

Just randomly picking people to call shots doesn't work.  W/the camera system, hits are pretty obvious...misses, not so much.
FWIW
adios
i r a gunsmith...i do gun wurk...i kan make it beter...

Re: March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 12:10:43 PM »

Offline J Mack

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It might be helpful if the MD asks the shooter if he’s mil or moa and lets the spotters that are trying to help to make the call in those increments if they can or wait until asked before they start shouting corrections.

  I get everyone is trying to be helpful and I would hate to take that part of this shoot away but it’s hard to make the correction in your brain when you hear wildly different numbers being shouted out.

Another thing that might be kind of cool for the new or first time shooters is to pair them up with a guy that knows the ropes and shooting a similar cartridge to coach them along and answer questions on commands and calls. I would have been happy to share my limited knowledge if you would have put a couple of new guys with Travis and I.

All and all I thought it went about as smooth as it could with the conditions and amount of what appeared to be new’ish shooters and it was certainly a good time so it wouldn’t change much.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 12:12:33 PM by J Mack »
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Re: March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 12:12:52 PM »

Offline 3gunshredder

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It might be helpful if the MD asks the shooter if he’s mil or moa and lets the spotters that are trying to help to make the call in those increments if they can or wait until asked before they start shouting corrections.

  I get everyone is trying to be helpful and I would hate to take that part of this shoot away but it’s hard to make the correction in your brain when you hear wildly different numbers being shouted out.

Another thing that might be kind of cool for the new or first time shooters is to pair them up with a guy that knows the ropes and shooting a similar cartridge to coach them along and answer questions on commands and calls. I would have been happy to share my limited knowledge if you would have put a couple of new guys with Travis and I.

All and all I thought it went about as smooth as it could with the conditions and amount of what appeared to be new’ish shooters and it was certainly a good time so it wouldn’t change much.

pretty much this....^^^^^
adios
i r a gunsmith...i do gun wurk...i kan make it beter...

Re: March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2013, 01:56:13 PM »

Offline Edge

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Maybe for the next shoot, especially if there are a bunch of new'ish shooters, we should set up on the main rifle line and purposely shoot a few misses down range and have everyone on their scopes call out the correction.  (I would do this with a .308 or .223 of course)  If we started this at 7 or 8 am, I don't think it would take more than an hour to get everyone straightened out.

There will always be the dilima of moa vs mil, but at least we might be able to get away from "that landed next to aunt dorris' barn, bring up 1 half pig and over 2 cows".   :D

These shoots are a lot of fun and a great learning experience and I applaud Steve for his leadership in getting these set up and going!  I've really enjoyed them.

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Re: March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 05:07:01 PM »

Offline ID#5

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Well about that last Mile Shoot.....
 
This match is still evolving.
 It started out with volley fire and a Master spotter, which got tossed after the first match.
Then did a few iterations and ended up as just splitting into 2 squads.
It was the same 9 to 12 guys at each match and the 2 squads worked out pretty well.
 
Tried that with 19 shooters and it did not work out so well from a match admin stand point or a shooters.
(sorry guys, don't know something until you know)
 

The biggest challenge has always been spotting misses
And in the past one spotter is not enough so we've had multiple spotters, with one being sorta primary and 2 backups or so.
 
So after the last match going to make some adjustments for the June Match
 
Here is what I’m thinking, if there is going to 20 shooters this year or whatever
 
Squads of 5 to 6 guys
Squads will be all corrections in Mils or all corrections in MOA, shooters will pick their own squad.
(All the suppressed guys will be in one squad or 2 squads if there are enough quite guys.
The suppressed guys are pretty fluent in either but shooter will state preference)

One squad will be going hot, the next squad will be on deck, etc.
All the shooters in each squad will be next to each other.
 
In the squad that is firing there will be one shooter
One shooter is on deck getting ready and everyone else will be spotting
The shooter will ask whoever to be his spotter and everyone else is a backup spotter
(because everyone can miss seeing a shot)

 


thoughts?

The whole point is to have a good time without getting into Drill Sergeant territory
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 05:15:39 PM by ID#5 »
How much is that in Mils? - JMack
March 2, 2013


It's completely legal.   The only problem is that it puts you into FR Class (Full Retard), and you might be the only one in the entire country running FR.   Of course, it would set you up for 1st Place in your class, everytime you shoot. 
Big D

Re: March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 05:53:28 PM »

Offline mc45308

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A couple of photos of the day. My favorite is the spotting scope one. Where the hell is that white flag anyway! ???
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! It's the War Room!"  Peter Sellers " Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb."

Re: March 2nd mile shoot recap/thoughts
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 01:53:18 PM »

Offline Luvmy45

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I think what we are finding, with the shooters now is that shooting the gun is not the only thing you need to be able to do. That is one of the things that I have appreciated about the LRTR shoots. You need to use a spotter and the spotter/shooter combo makes the team... good shooter, bad spotter... will do worse that a bad shooter with a good spotter.

We may want to look at doing the first part of the mile shoot in the clubhouse, and going over some mils/moa the difference and what the role of the spotter is. How to call corrections... Do you call the hit, or do you call the correction. Do you use Mil or MOA or size of the target? Why or Why not?

Not necessarily the whole ballistics class thing, and then Pair up... if you have a partner great, that's your spotter/shooter combo, if you don't assign one for the shoot. So that you get use to working with one person for the shoot.

The camera confirms hits, and where on the plate you are... and if we back the zoom off a little we could possibly see more misses, but really that's what your spotter is for. The camera may be becoming the crutch. We need to use it just to confirm hits, and learn to watch the trace, see the misses and call corrections.

Anyway, just a few of my thoughts.